Lee Asher-Simpson
Posts: 9
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| 29/05/2007 01:13 |
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Posted By Derek Rowntree on 24/05/2007 18:10
*** How might students be persuaded to take seriously an assessment (or teaching) activity that does not directly contribute to their grade on the course?
*** Have you any suggestions as to how Jim Baxter might modify his course for 2007-8?
I think that todays students are generally pragmatic and economical with their time. Unless the activity directly improves short term consequences for the students (marks or formal credit) my experience is, they will be unwilling to participate. Jim has designed a wonderful learning activity, but most students seem to be oriented towards obtaining an education, which is secondary to obtaining other objectives, rather than for the pleasure of learning and contributing as much as possible. Perhaps this pleasure in learning and contributing to knowledge is a luxury that only qualified people with secure jobs and incomes can indulge in.
In other words the only way I see to encourage this participation is to award course completion requirements or give marks for it.
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Janice Whatley
Posts: 1
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| 29/05/2007 10:54 |
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| We have been using an online forum, CABWEB (www.cabweb.net), to give students the opportunity to talk to students elsewhere in the world. The particular exercise I have used is for the web pages that my students have designed to be evaluated (or reviewed) by another set of students, to give feedback. I agree that getting students to provide an assessment is not always a good idea, but this works because the feedback is used to produce a report on the changes they need to make to their web pages, and it is the report that is assessed by me. |
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Terri Rees
Posts: 2
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| 29/05/2007 11:14 |
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| I currently teach on a post-graduate cert for learning and teaching in higher education and even with what we currently ask them to do over the course of one or two terms, which is five short pieces of work (total c7000 words)and three teaching observations for 20 credits, we are constantly getting feedback that there is too much assessment. My point is, that it seems that the online psychology case would seem to be labour and time intensive and that this might be a drawback for busy, new lecturers or PhD students. Have you any thoughts about ways to reduce the workload without sacrificing quality? |
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Jim Baxter
Posts: 17
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| 29/05/2007 12:12 |
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Compiled Messages
Topic: Forum Date: 16 May 2007
Below are some comments posted on the students general online forum after the degree exam. These are all of them. I haven't edited them.
Topic: Forum Date: 16 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Yvonne Hill
Hey Jim, it was helpful that by looking at the past papers you could see exactly what your choice of subjects were. For me that meant studying 4 full subjects- the chapter on personality,development etc and then I was able to answer any question that came up within that chapter. Learnonline has also been a huuuugggeeee help in terms of the online projects for past learning and background reading, and discussions on here about the different topics has been a great help to me anyways. So, we’ve definately had lots and lots of support this year and very easy access to info :)
Topic: Forum Date: 16 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Sara Hunter
Yup the most supportive class by far!!!! ‘)
Topic: Forum Date: 17 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Graeme Morrison
Hi Jim, not reali all that confident but the Online Projects did help the understanding. They were really beneficial in the end.
Topic: Forum Date: 17 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Lisa Boyle
yup very confident. cos u were there to help on webct and the op made everything easier x
Topic: Forum Date: 17 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Stuart Mcallister
Ye the forums were a great help. goin bak to the handwriting thing. im left handed and all my essays are totally smuged. hope this wont effect my marks!
Topic: Forum Date: 17 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Jaclyn Molloy
me too i hate that we are so disadvantaged - i have a constant area of blue pen on the side of my left hand that just doesnt go away!
Topic: Forum Date: 17 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Keri Smith
i thought that exam was ace! four essay Qns id learned word for word! only exam i walked out of feeling alrite!
Topic: Forum Date: 17 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Jaclyn Molloy
yeah me too acutally - dotn wanna speak too soon though.
Topic: Forum Date: 17 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Samantha Cassells
Psychology was brilliant in terms of support! All the rest of mine basically left you hanging or refused to help! I get nervous enough when exams call but uni is still relatively newish to me and the first exams were daunting but I felt really comfortable in the psychology one :D well as comfortable as you can be in an exam! lol Hopefully I’ll have enough to pass n get into second year psycho! lol
Topic: Forum Date: 18 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Yvonne Hill
Did any1 else think that because we had done so much learning through the year and had so much online support here that the exam seemed to go a little too well’ I mean I felt that I grasped the concepts well and when that happens with me I simplify everything so I can understand it better...a bit worried now that it was supposed to be more complicated than that! I dunno how much sense this makes lol
Topic: Forum Date: 20 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Joseph Timms
The online projects did it all for me. It really helped me understand the material, and it was great to look back on for study purposes.Yes, online projects ftw.
Topic: Forum Date: 20 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Jennifer Kyle
Hahaha OP’s ftw...love it! I agree, despite being a bit stressful sometimes it was definately worth putting in the effort to do them!
Topic: Forum Date: 20 May 2007
Subject: Re:Exam - Initial Impressions Author: Nicola Kennedy
i loved psychology this year! i feel we were given lots more help and advice than any of my other classes had. Thought the online projects were a brilliant idea....really helped when it came to the exam. So yeah, thanks :)xx
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Jim Baxter
Posts: 17
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| 29/05/2007 12:22 |
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| Btw, 'ftw' means 'for the win', apparently. A betting term, no doubt. |
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Tracey Winning
Posts: 10
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| 29/05/2007 12:25 |
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| Jim, Thanks for your paper and discussion. I am very interested in the clearly collarborative nature of the work the students did, with your guidance/advice on how they might structure their approach. We have groups working on learning issues they identify related to a case they have discussed, but we struggle to get the collaboration happening rather they generally do their bit ie collect info and then add the bits together - they see it as repetitive doing the research across all learning issues and then coming together to develop a common response - the few that do recognise the value of this, but if time is short or they have other assessments..... Clearly there is a link that I am missing in terms of how the students value the activity and possibly the structure that you provide. We also provide them with online facilities to try and support their collaboration (as they have high contact hours and so cannot always meet in person), but few if any use it - maybe our mistake here is that we do not require them to use the online facility and indicate it is a requirement and then monitor it. Something to think about, but the monitoring aspect is an issue in terms of staff time. I need to work out how we could achieve this but reduce other workload for all involved. Thanks for helping me see what might be possible, cheers tracey w |
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Jim Baxter
Posts: 17
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| 29/05/2007 12:34 |
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Thanks Tracey,
I would tend to agree with everybody who posted something to the effect that students need some additional incentive, be it carrot or(as in the case of my class) stick, or both, to get them started. With regard to monitoring, it seems to be enough that students know their work MAY be monitored, rather than being certain that it will be. So it may be possible, when staff time is tight, to sample the works of online groups in a rolling programme, rather than monitoring every single contribution. This can be backed up the the tracking sytem built into the VLE so that obvious offenders - those who post little or nothing - can be identified.
Jim |
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Robert McGregor
Posts: 1
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| 29/05/2007 12:37 |
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...picking up on a discussion thread in the live chat about the implications of different teaching/learning approaches impacting on the levels of learning/attainment students can achieve. (See below thread extracts from live chat)
David, your point about holding students back is very interesting, and leads me to think about two comparisons in the primary and secondary sectors.
Recently (and increasingly under the new "ACE" - A Curriculum for Excellence) the rules on Age and Stage were relaxed so that students in some pilot schools were allowed to sit standard grades and higher when they were “ready” rather than at a pre-determined age. I understand the results have been mixed but it opens up interesting questions about how we traditionally conceive how and when students should progress through education and indeed levels.
Age and stage might also mean that students are able to stay on at school longer and undertake assessment later (when they are ready) as well as earlier. At present we seem to employ a sink or swim attitude to these “key assessments” and if a student doesn’t make it, their only recourse is to leave and go to college to gain the award.
Secondly and related is the way the 5-14 framework is conceptualised in primary and early secondary. The five(?) stages are not age related (but there are guides to where a student should be/what level they should be attaining by what age/primary (grade) level) and students can progress through the stages according to their own development (theoretically). This links to the Age and Stage regulations with regard to Standard Grades and Highers (Higher Still)
The point I am getting at is, are there implications for the way we admit students to higher education and allow them to progress? Theoretically the introduction of credit rating (cf the SCQF) might allow us to make the transition more fluid and flexible – if a student demonstrates consistent levels of competence/attainment at the requisite level (in the same way we admit students to 2nd or third year on the basis of A-level or HN attainment?). I would concur that the administrative implications of this (including the implications of funding for individual institutions) are significant and may be the most insurmountable barrier but that shouldn’t be the reason for not looking at this.
And more to the point if approaches to assessment and teaching, particularly utilising technology demonstrate that we can consistently improve the levels of attainment of students then what are/should be the implications for how we teach/allow these students to progress?
(sorry, more like a mini essay than a forum post – discuss!)
>>>>rmcgregor: Jim, you say that some 1st yr students displayed work to 2nd or 3rd yr standard. Was this a feature of particularly gifted students or do you think there's a way of systemitising an acceleration in learning for all students?
>>>DavidNicol: going back to robert's question we have seen these results in other courses in reap with similar features
>>>rmcgregor: David, that is very interesting. What implications does this have for the way we conceptualise "levels" of learning?
>>>DavidNicol: I think that in some instances we are holding students back perhaps by controlling too much and not allowing initial experimentation - to robert
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Derek Rowntree
Posts: 35
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| 29/05/2007 12:45 |
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Thanks for showing us those students' comments on the course and its culmination in the exam, Jim. Assessments like those we can certainly feel encouraged by. Fascinating to see that appeared to have learned so well that they found the exam was untypically easy!
And wasn't that a useful remark from Joseph Timms about the benefit of having the archive of the course to refer back to for revision purposes? |
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David Nicol
Posts: 18
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| 29/05/2007 15:35 |
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| Yes Robert, I really feel that all students don't need the same curriculum diet and that some could progress faster through the curriculum than others. However, this would require a different way of organising learning perhaps more resource based with different learning oppportunities but with the same learning outcome requirements. Technology could help support this. However, there are issues. For example, if group working were a strong part of this (either as a requirement or as part of the process to make learning faster) then some thought would need to go into how this was organised. For example, would students form groups based on how quickly they wished to progress through the course? |
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Derek Rowntree
Posts: 35
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| 29/05/2007 16:45 |
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| Next time you're online, Jim, I wonder if you can remind us what learning resources your students use besides the lectures. Am I right in thinking there are no traditional style textbooks used on the course? Do you provide any printed materials? I think you recommend various readings (on the web)? But are students expected to find readings of their own related to the topic? Would it raise any assessment problems, so far as you can see, if different groups were using different resources? |
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Jim Baxter
Posts: 17
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| 29/05/2007 17:41 |
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Derek,
They have one core introductory textbook, and I also direct them to the former textbook, of which there are multiple copies in the library. The intention is to simulate reading around the subject in a way that is managable given the library resources. I will sometimes post a link to an online article and also they have a link to an excellent site which allows them to read original 'classical' articles, now out of copyright. Stuff by Freud, Skinner, Festinger, Pavlow, etc. I suggest too that they look at Wikipedia, while asking them to bear in mind that it is not always accurate. |
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Derek Rowntree
Posts: 35
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| 29/05/2007 19:14 |
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| Thanks, Jim. So they're all singing from the same hymn sheet, more or less. |
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Jim Baxter
Posts: 17
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| 29/05/2007 20:07 |
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| Yes, they all have the same material. How neatly they tailor it is up to them. I've seen some natty suits and some boiler suits. OK, I'd drop that metaphor right now. |
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